Job Outsourcing Stories
Read first-hand outsourcing tales from the job front.
Shouldn't the norms apply equally?I work at a Silicon Valley company and there's a diverse workforce at my company.
I have a coworker, "S", who is Indian. She's arrogant and patronizing and I don't like dealing with her but I am professional towards her.
A few months ago, she and her husband bought a house and had a house-warming party. She invited some of the people in our group. But they were all Indian. She only invited her Indian coworkers to her housewarming party. No whites or Asians.
"S" only socializes with other Indians; with Asians or whites like me, she does not socialize with us. That's OK with me. I support the right or freedom to associate with anyone you want. Just be professional at work because I'm at the office primarily to work and get a paycheck, not primarily to socialize.
A few weeks ago, I had a Super Bowl party at my house. I invited a few coworkers. Since "S" does not like football, I did not invite her. I did not invite any of my Indian coworkers, not because I wanted to exclude them but because they have never shown interest in football. Most of the coworkers I invited were also men, because I invited the ones who liked football.
"S" found out about the party and complained to my manager so that it came across as if I excluded Indians. Mind you, there was an Indian (male) at my SB party but he was not a current coworker but a former one (who works at another company). There were also Chinese, Korean, and Hispanics at my party, as well as white people.
I didn't hold a "whites-only" party.
Now, I support "S" and other Indians to socialize among themselves and exclude me. That's fine. But why is it that when I exclude them, it's viewed as being racist?
I don't understand how the various ethnic cliques at my company (Russians, Indians, Chinese) are tolerated but if whites formed a little social clique at work, we'd be viewed as racist.
Why doesn't the norms of race apply equally to all races? Why didn't "S" get dinged for only inviting Indian coworkers to her house warming party but I did for not inviting Indian coworkers who don't even like football?Read 6 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by wageslave on 02/18/2012:
Americans losing their jobsI tried to dispute a Sears credit card charge this weekend. I was connected with an operator in Guatamala. I could hardly understand her. The whole conversation was very frustrating and I asked to be connected to someone in the US. Why is a multibillion dollar company throwing away jobs?
Why can't I find one pair of jeans made in the US? LEVIS are now made in Mexico and India and their quality has suffered. NFL gear is not cheap but that's how it's made.
I am starting my own personal boycott on foreign made goods. Bring back the tariffs on foreign made goods! Corporations will not wise up until they feel the economic pinch.Read 7 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by labtech on 10/26/2011:
I'm not greedy, you are!For the past six months I've been trying to start a business. It's a silly little thing, coupon booklets, printed material and such, but it's potentially very profitable if you consider that it's a one time cost expense that can be reproduced for pennies and sold for dollars. Anyway, I used to have a real hard-on about these greedy jokers that like to send our jobs to China and India ( me and Lou Dobbs!) just to inflate their already fat bottom lines and I was very hard lined about sourcing suppliers locally.. That is, until I experienced first hand, the sheer greed and opportunism that exploits 'need' by charging outrageous prices leaving me no choice but to go to China to be even a little bit profitable. Let’s take for example, something like a simple 8.5 x11 color flyer printed on slandered white paper. How much do you figure a piece of printed paper should cost? 5 cents? 20 cents? 50 cents? At the 'Quickie' mart it costs 50 cents and I'm good with that. But now I need 20 thousand flyers and the Quickie mart doesn't give bulk discounts. Any good business person would expect a discount when ordering in bulk and since I can't expect that from my local Quickie mart, I have to go to a commercial printer. Guess what, the lowest quote I got was 1.20 per flyer. I guess they roll their bulk discounts in from the top down! Are you f'n kidding me? Well no wonder everyone's going to China! I go to China and get quoted 4 cents! Don't have to be a genius to figure out the math on that one. Now, I'm supposed to feel guilty, like I'm the one being greedy and unpatriotic? So, Mr. Supplier, and Mr. Quickie Mart, if it weren't for your greed in the first place, I wouldn't have had to go to China! If the Quickie Mart had the brains to start issuing bulk discounts and the Local supplier didn’t exploit the market, no one would outsource. So the way I figure it, the problem starts with you! Don't get me wrong, I would have gladly paid a modest premium to source locally, I would have paid up to 75 cents or even a buck. But you make it virtually impossible for me, and then fault me for my choice to go to China. What a hypocracy!
I realize there are several reasons why the pricing disparity is so huge. Cost of labor, sweatshops, unsafe working environments. But even providing for that, by working with ISO certified vendors, you're still looking at less than 10 cents a flyer. So this just tells me that sometimes cheap is cheap simply because it's cheep, not because it's unethical. Our local guys are charging upwards of 500 percent mark ups.. So why not just 50%, this way everyone can make a buck!? So long as we have a 'meet it or beat it' annual profit guidance, this will never happen. 'Some' profit is never enough.. always has to be 'more' profit. Same profit as last year is never good enough, always has to be more than last year.. at what point to you cap out? reach the max limit? So the way I see it, we're all guilty of perpetuating this outsourcing problem. The consumer wants it cheap, cheaper and cheapest, so the retailer wants it wholesale, and the wholesaler wants it for next to free. Wholesaler has to go to China. Everyone's gotta get greased, to keep this big wheel moving.. Capitalism at it's finest folks!.. and I have no solutions, just observations.Read 3 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by Printing Fool on 04/09/2011:
Only in AmericaIn the 1990s, the Democrats wanted banks to stop "redlining" and offer mortgages to poor people so they could buy houses.
So banks did.
And then to "reduce" the risk of loaning money to people who couldn't afford it, they created exotic financial instruments that were supposed to make the loans to poor people less risky.
Poor and lower income people, people who shouldn't have been able to buy a home with their level of income and savings, bought homes. Created a housing bubble.
The bubble popped.
Banks and financial institutions were in trouble because they were holding these mortgage loans on people who couldn't afford them.
So our politicans, the same ones who pushed the banks to make loans to the people who couldn't afford them (ie the poor), now attacked the banks for offering loans to people who couldn't afford them. And made it sound like the banks were in some scam to bilk the lendees. And the politicians (especially the liberal Democrats) absolved themselves of the blame.
The banks got bailed out. They got attacked for making risky loans to people who couldn't afford them. And tightened their lending standards.
Now the politicians are saying that the banks need to lend more to Main Street America, even if it means lending to risky lendees and offering them loans that they can't afford to pay.
Isn't this how we got into this mess in the first place?Read 5 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by BonusOnus on 02/02/2010:
At my former company...They have an office in India. The Indian office is full of people who are BS artists. They have yet to deliver on time and as promised -- so far, for every project, they have been behind schedule, or, if they are on schedule, they have not provided 100% of the functionality as they promised.
Yet they survive layoffs because...well, the CTO is Indian and he protects them. But if you are an employee in the US and you never delivered on time or didn't deliver 100% of what you promised, you get canned. And there's been layoffs in the US office.
So they started bringing over the desis from India on L1B visas, ostensibly to train them better. Then they are kept here, allowed to get greencards, and allowed to replace those who get laid off. It's not outsourcing because the jobs would be sent to India. Instead, Indians (and Indians from India only -- Indians in America need not apply) are hired.
Sounds fishy to me. I called INS and reported a possible visa violation. I don't have enough evidence but this also looks very discriminatory too -- maybe I should call the Dept. of Labor too.
Why the f**k is my former company bringing Indians over when 1) they aren't as good as American workers; 2) there's a ton of Americans unemployed and looking for work? And why are they just bringing over Indians and not Chinese or Russians on visas?
I'm so glad I'm no longer there. I had an idiot manager (white) and a bunch of sneaky Indians I had to deal with.
PS: to all of you out there, if you see possible violations of discrimination, avoidance of laws by hiring illegals, or skirting of visa laws by bringing in Indians on H1B or L1B visas, please contact Immigration and Customs Enforcement. You need to start raising a stink. The job you save might be your own.
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Posted by twiz on 01/05/2010:
No wonder we are screwedNow that we have Obama has president, we have:
1) Wingnuts who claim Obama is illegitimate because he wasn't born in the US
2) people who disrupt health care townhall meetings because they are extremely opposed to health care reform
3) people who equate Obama with Hitler
I shake my head.
Then I look at the other side of the political aisle and remember just a few years ago when:
1) Wingnuts claimed Bush was illegitimate because he "stole" the election in 2000 and 2004.
2) anti-war people like Code Pink disrupted government meetings and threw items at Bush's 2004 presidential procession.
3) people who equated Bush with Hitler
I shake my head even more....
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Posted by chubby girl on 08/14/2009:
Possible changes to H1B visa ruleshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090604/bs_bw/jun2009db2009062581634
The outsourcing companies say that the Indian government will respond. Of course they will. But they'd be hypocrites. They have already reacted to the global economic downturn by trying to force Indian airline companies to fire foreign pilots and hire Indian pilots. Now they are angry that the US government is reacting the same way?
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Posted by WalkingInMyOwnShoes on 06/04/2009:
What if America did this?
Even India's government tries to look out for its citizens first.
Ours doesn't. Doesn't matter if it's Democrat or Republican, the jokes on us, the voters, for believing the BS that either side blows.
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Posted by SouthernProgrammer on 05/11/2009:
Is Your View Of Work Different From A Year Ago?Over the past few months, I have noticed a big change at work. Mainly that people are taking longer lunch breaks, leaving earlier than usual, and just really seem to be more blasé about work.
I mentioned this to a few co-workers during lunch and the response was "Well, since [insert co-workers name here] has been laid off I see the company isn't loyal to me so why should I knock myself out!"
I can't say I blame them, I too have felt less excited about work these days and find myself looking more forward to the weekends to the point it has become a distraction.
How about you?Read 9 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by BonusOnus on 05/08/2009:
What should my friend do?I have a family friend. He's actually the friend of my dad.
He has a small business and employs about 6 people. It's not a big business. It's a sole proprietorship so the friend, who is also the owner, gets the profits from the business. In other words, his salary is what his business makes, minus labor costs, rent, equipment, insurance, etc.
He has had 1 employee for 8+ years. He doesn't pay them all that much but they make around $15-18 an hour. He doesn't offer them health care benefits but provides for vacation. He pays all the payroll, unemployment insurance, and disability insurance. Most of his employees are Hispanic.
His business has gone down since the recession started.
He has a competitor and he's been losing contracts to the competitor. He found out that the competitor is hiring illegal immigrants and paying under the table. The competitor does not pay for payroll, UI, DI, etc. and passes that savings onto the customers. Since the competitor can offer less for contracts (around 10% less), his competitor has been eating into his business. He needs all the business he can get.
He has tried reporting the use of illegal immigrants to the ICE. Nothing happened, no raids, nothing. My friend is thinking of now firing all his employees and either hiring them back off the books or hiring illegals on a per day basis to keep his labor costs down. If he doesn't do something, he will lose business and have to lay off almost everybody. His business might go under.
I advised NOT hiring illegal immigrants but he's desperate and he sees his competitor surviving this way. I don't necessarily blame him though. What should my friend do? Abide by the law and get underbid and go out of business? Or cheat and survive?Read 7 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by HaveADamnNiceDay on 03/16/2009:
So how come E-Verify wasn't placed in the stimulus bill?Remember folks, the stimulus bill prohibits companies from using the government bailout to hire H1B employees.
But the requirement that contractors for the infrastructure programs check that their employees are legal residents thru E-Verify was removed.
One step forward, then one step back.
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Posted by anonymous on 03/09/2009:
More skilled immigrants returning to their home countryhttp://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090303/bs_bw/feb2009tc20090228990934
The study is tainted and leaves a few points out.
>> "Despite the fact that they constitute only 12% of the U.S. population, immigrants have started 52% of Silicon Valley's technology companies and contributed to more than 25% of our global patents."
This is misleading. Immigrants have contributed immensely to our economic growth. HOWEVER, just because they go back to their home country doesn't mean that they will create the next Yahoo or create patents.
There is a reason why you can't name a Chinese or Indian version of Microsoft, Yahoo, or Google. While the immigrants from these countries are talented and help American innovation, these people did it in the American environment. The same people in the Chinese or Indian environment will not start tech companies or file patents because the business environment there does not foster such things.
I do not fear that China and India will overtake America for innovation on growth, not unless either country becomes more like America in terms of corruption, infrastructure, access to capital, free flowing thought, and entrepreneurship. People, go back 20 years - people were saying that Japan Inc would overtake America by now. Has it?
> "Nearly a third of the Chinese returnees and a fifth of the Indians came to the U.S. on student visas. A fifth of the Chinese and nearly half of the Indians entered on temporary work visas (such as the H-1B). "
I don't have a problem with giving H1B visas to students from other countries who study here, get a degree and want to work here.
I have a problem with bodyshops like Satyam, Wipro, and Tata who use H1B visas to bring foreign workers and undercut the salaries of American workers.
Why don't we have separate visas for students who studied here and want to start working here? I have no problem with that.
Finally, I have a problem with Americans, white, black, Hispanic not getting science, math, and engineering degrees.
At one of my former companies, it sponsored interns. The company was a high-tech company in Silicon Valley. Most of them are post-graduate students. They had a little fair to show off their work at the company, to talk about the project that they worked on.
Almost all the interns for marketing, finance, and sales were filled with Americans. 95% of the interns for the engineering departments were filled with foreign students, mostly from India and China. Why the f**k are more Americans not getting post graduate degrees in engineering and computer science? And then we complain about Indians and Chinese taking our jobs? ***> This is the other half of the H1B problem!Read 14 Replies | Add a ReplyUser Feedback:Close Replies
Posted by CK on 03/03/2009:
Good Example Of Why Raising Taxes Won't Help...http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=6975547&page=1
A 63-year-old attorney based in Lafayette, La., who asked not to be named, told ABCNews.com that she plans to cut back on her business to get her annual income under the quarter million mark should the Obama tax plan be passed by Congress and become law. We are going to try to figure out how to make our income $249,999.00," she said. "We have to find a way out where we can make just what we need to just under the line so we can benefit from Obama's tax plan," she added. "Why kill yourself working if you're going to give it all away to people who aren't working as hard?"
If this is an example of what will happen, watch the rate get lowered.
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Posted by HaveADamnNiceDay on 03/03/2009:
What Bill Gates giveth, Bill Gates can taketh away.What Bill Gates giveth, Bill Gates can taketh away.
Microsoft says some of the 1,400 employees it laid off last month accidentally got too much in their severance packages -- and now it wants the money back.
"This letter is to inform you that an inadvertent administrative error occurred that resulted in an overpayment in severance pay by Microsoft," reads a letter sent to an unnamed employee and posted on the TechCrunch blog. "We ask that you repay the overpayment and sincerely apologize for any overpayment to you."
Blacked out are the employee's name and address and how much Microsoft says he owes. The letter bears a Microsoft letterhead and a date of Feb. 18.
Contacted by CNet News, a Microsoft spokesman confirmed the letter was real and hinted that some other laid-off employees had been underpaid in their severance packages.
He or she declined further comment, deeming it "a private matter between the company and the affected people."
Microsoft wants the money back within two weeks. The incentive? An adjusted employee tax statement from Microsoft. Otherwise, you're liable for the income tax on the extra cash.
On Jan. 22, the day the layoffs were announced, Microsoft reported its net income for the Oct.-Dec. 2008 quarter was down 11 percent from a year previously, but was still a healthy $4.17 billion.
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Posted by lost_in_america on 02/23/2009:
They Sent My Job to IndiaThis new music CD reflects my sentiments about outsourcing, bosses from hell, etc. I could not be a programmer any more, because my old company sent these jobs to India.
I created the CD to vent about the hell I had just been through (four rounds of layoffs in a year in an increasingly hostile environment, boss screwing up and blaming me so he would not be laid off, etc.). I did not want take my anger to my next job, so I thought venting through music might help me. It is humorous, but cuts to the point.
http://www.indikatt.com/AmandaTheySentMyJobtoIndia.htmAdd a Reply
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